Przydatne ciekawostki TeamHB
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Posted on 2023-01-04 16:12:12   
Sir Antonio
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W gąszczu danych, wiedzy, informacji, które pojawiały się na forum lata wstecz - ciężko stwierdzić co jest aktualne, a co nie i łatwo się pogubić. Przeszukiwanie tego też nie należy do rzeczy prostych.

Otwieram temat, gdzie eksperci będą mogli odpowiedzieć na nurtujące nas pytania, przekazać ukryte smaczki gry, które kiedyś wpadły im w oczy i nieco oświecić drogę, którą kiedyś podążali.

Ode mnie dwa pytania na start

1. Lewa ręka - czy jest liczona jako forma bonusu w grze? Czy leworęczny zawodnik lepiej zagra na prawej stronie boiska niż na lewej? Czy ma jakikolwiek wpływ na grę zawodnika czy jest suchą informacją?

2. Wzrost - z tego co się doszperałem - im wyższy zawodnik tym lepiej broni przeciw taktyce rzut z wyskoku. Czy wyżsi zawodnicy gorzej radzą sobie przy innych taktykach (w defensywie i ofensywie), czy silnik zawiera w sobie dane o priorytetowych pozycjach dla wyższych zawodników? Czy wysoki skrzydłowy będzie się sprawdzał gorzej niż niski?



Posted on 2023-01-04 16:36:06   
Alexsoulsay
Posts: 2218
Joined: 2012-07-09
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Sir Antonio wrote:

W gąszczu danych, wiedzy, informacji, które pojawiały się na forum lata wstecz - ciężko stwierdzić co jest aktualne, a co nie i łatwo się pogubić. Przeszukiwanie tego też nie należy do rzeczy prostych.

Otwieram temat, gdzie eksperci będą mogli odpowiedzieć na nurtujące nas pytania, przekazać ukryte smaczki gry, które kiedyś wpadły im w oczy i nieco oświecić drogę, którą kiedyś podążali.

Ode mnie dwa pytania na start

1. Lewa ręka - czy jest liczona jako forma bonusu w grze? Czy leworęczny zawodnik lepiej zagra na prawej stronie boiska niż na lewej? Czy ma jakikolwiek wpływ na grę zawodnika czy jest suchą informacją?

2. Wzrost - z tego co się doszperałem - im wyższy zawodnik tym lepiej broni przeciw taktyce rzut z wyskoku. Czy wyżsi zawodnicy gorzej radzą sobie przy innych taktykach (w defensywie i ofensywie), czy silnik zawiera w sobie dane o priorytetowych pozycjach dla wyższych zawodników? Czy wysoki skrzydłowy będzie się sprawdzał gorzej niż niski?




Add 1. - FAQ Match tactics/formation 19. What is a wing? A winger is a player who plays either on the left (LW) or on the right (RW) in attack. The hand he uses is of great importance. Left wing (LW) would ideally use my right hand and right wing (RW) with my left. The winger usually shoots from a very small angle, which he tries to increase by jumping towards the center of the pitch. Players with good technique and jump are good candidates for this position.

Add 2. - FAQ Match tactics/formation 24. What is jump shooting? The jump shot is an offensive strategy where the main goal is to shoot over the defenders' heads from a distance. This strategy is very effective when using tall players against more static defenses (especially 6-0) with smaller players (to maximize the view of the goal and reduce the number of blocked shots). 3-3, on the other hand, is a very effective system against this strategy.

Practice. The hand certainly matters, especially on the wings, and it's no coincidence that these players are in high demand in the transfer market. As for height, there is probably an advantage for taller players, but certainly not for all attacking systems.

Posted on 2023-01-04 18:11:03   
Sir Antonio
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Thank you.

Odpowiedź jest niekompletna więc nadal liczę, że ktoś dołoży swoje trzy grosze z doświadczenia

Posted on 2023-01-04 18:28:52   
Alexsoulsay
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Joined: 2012-07-09
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Sir Antonio wrote:

Thank you.

Odpowiedź jest niekompletna więc nadal liczę, że ktoś dołoży swoje trzy grosze z doświadczenia



Today, everything is more difficult to prove statistically, because in my opinion the game engine has not been working correctly for a long time.

Posted on 2023-01-04 19:28:12   
Sir Antonio
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I think the same. When I was a coach of Poland national team few season ago, matches give a strange results despite the bonus of tactic and stronger team. Earlier it worked good.

Posted on 2023-01-07 15:11:23   
kamilos
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Alexsoulsay wrote:


Today, everything is more difficult to prove statistically, because in my opinion the game engine has not been working correctly for a long time.


In my opinion, the reality is not as we thought about it. The randomness in this game has significantly more signification than we were expecting. Do not know if it is a problem of last seasons, don't think so, because it would be connected with changes made in the engine. Nothing was told about this, so it is rather a longer story.
I noticed it during last several seasons when my team started to be one of the best and I lost a few matches which I definitely should have not. It is normal to lose sometimes with a worse team, but I found some kind of pattern in those strange losses, when you are winning definitely significant part of a match, then suddenly your players start to make many offensive fouls in a row. What I think- people at the forum started to see strange matches, irrational results, victories of average teams, but the key is to understand that game engine works on the base of time and randomness. How it works underneath? It is a set of instructions, which are calculated based on skills and pure random. Random number generators use mathematical formulas to convert a set of numbers to another set. You have some collection of numbers, which should be changed every time you run an operation etc. Now think in this way that this engine use randomness, it was stated many times by admins. If the randomness is more important than we though, let's say 10% to 1-2%, ohh, we have a problem. Now, proper odds generated automatically by some server might be vital to your success. At the highest level differences between teams are not too high, let's say, a few points of skills between two players. That is not too much. Look at this example:

Player from team A has 200 sum of skills
Player from team B has 190 sum of skills

If the randomness favors the second one, they might be close to each other, equal or even the second one is going to be definitely better. Thinking about luck value as equal 10%, you see that the first can go up to 220 or down to 180. Now try to think that randomness is a pure unknown value, we should not think about this like 50/50 share, now, sometimes, it might calculate 100 results and even for example 70 of them can be in favor of one of the team. It is pretty much.
So in conclusion, depends on the value of randomness, how it is important. Does every skill is multiplied by the factor of generated numbers and, let's call it, luck? Who knows. This is just my theory, that this so-called luck is more important than we thought and it may change values even by 10%, maybe more, not as many probably thought, rather thinking about lower values. I think that admins wanted to create a game which would give many opportunities to worse teams, create something in a manner of different results for 10 matches between the same teams. Every one of such matches should end in a different result. They simulate it pretty ok, but due to this we need to take into account, that sometimes you can lose with worse team, or just have luck and win a battle with Goliath

Posted on 2023-01-07 16:07:13   
Alexsoulsay
Posts: 2218
Joined: 2012-07-09
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kamilos wrote:

Alexsoulsay wrote:


Today, everything is more difficult to prove statistically, because in my opinion the game engine has not been working correctly for a long time.


In my opinion, the reality is not as we thought about it. The randomness in this game has significantly more signification than we were expecting. Do not know if it is a problem of last seasons, don't think so, because it would be connected with changes made in the engine. Nothing was told about this, so it is rather a longer story.
I noticed it during last several seasons when my team started to be one of the best and I lost a few matches which I definitely should have not. It is normal to lose sometimes with a worse team, but I found some kind of pattern in those strange losses, when you are winning definitely significant part of a match, then suddenly your players start to make many offensive fouls in a row. What I think- people at the forum started to see strange matches, irrational results, victories of average teams, but the key is to understand that game engine works on the base of time and randomness. How it works underneath? It is a set of instructions, which are calculated based on skills and pure random. Random number generators use mathematical formulas to convert a set of numbers to another set. You have some collection of numbers, which should be changed every time you run an operation etc. Now think in this way that this engine use randomness, it was stated many times by admins. If the randomness is more important than we though, let's say 10% to 1-2%, ohh, we have a problem. Now, proper odds generated automatically by some server might be vital to your success. At the highest level differences between teams are not too high, let's say, a few points of skills between two players. That is not too much. Look at this example:

Player from team A has 200 sum of skills
Player from team B has 190 sum of skills

If the randomness favors the second one, they might be close to each other, equal or even the second one is going to be definitely better. Thinking about luck value as equal 10%, you see that the first can go up to 220 or down to 180. Now try to think that randomness is a pure unknown value, we should not think about this like 50/50 share, now, sometimes, it might calculate 100 results and even for example 70 of them can be in favor of one of the team. It is pretty much.
So in conclusion, depends on the value of randomness, how it is important. Does every skill is multiplied by the factor of generated numbers and, let's call it, luck? Who knows. This is just my theory, that this so-called luck is more important than we thought and it may change values even by 10%, maybe more, not as many probably thought, rather thinking about lower values. I think that admins wanted to create a game which would give many opportunities to worse teams, create something in a manner of different results for 10 matches between the same teams. Every one of such matches should end in a different result. They simulate it pretty ok, but due to this we need to take into account, that sometimes you can lose with worse team, or just have luck and win a battle with Goliath



I don't think coincidence matters that much. If we are talking about league matches. It's different in cups, there are more of these surprising results.

But I wouldn't place much weight on the element of coincidence in the league. For example, in our top division, the champion is always someone from the top 2 teams, and almost always the best one wins.

Rather, I think and alluded to the strange results in connection with the engine, that the engine has not undergone changes, but there are definitely some bugs due to time. You can see it a lot with tactics, where I often win a match when I hit a bad defense with an attack (there should be a penalty), but in the end I win by a bigger margin than a match with the same opponent, but with better tactics.

Posted on 2023-01-09 17:33:40   
kamilos
Posts: 2048
Joined: 2011-01-15
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Alexsoulsay wrote:


I don't think coincidence matters that much. If we are talking about league matches. It's different in cups, there are more of these surprising results.

But I wouldn't place much weight on the element of coincidence in the league. For example, in our top division, the champion is always someone from the top 2 teams, and almost always the best one wins.

Rather, I think and alluded to the strange results in connection with the engine, that the engine has not undergone changes, but there are definitely some bugs due to time. You can see it a lot with tactics, where I often win a match when I hit a bad defense with an attack (there should be a penalty), but in the end I win by a bigger margin than a match with the same opponent, but with better tactics.


Hard to say, but yes, I would agree with you about the tactic. I perform many times better with worse tactic playing against the same team but with better tactic so really I lost faith in the bonus for proper formation. Maybe there is something but I am not sure if it really works in a way as it is described in FAQ- 10% up or down depends on the formation.

Yes, usually better teams won the league. As you stated in Cup, other things might happen because this lucky factor might happen in just one match. In league, you can lose one or two matches with worse teams due to this randomness and still you have big chances to be a champion. Secondly, how many teams in the league have a full squad of NT representatives? Usually 2-3 no more. It is basically between them who is going to win the league. But definitely there is some randomness in this game and still we don't know exactly how it works or how big it is. But still, I think it is pretty important. You can always have a bad day, but on the other hand you can have a better day, so usually it is going to be close to 50/50 share if it comes to advantage and disadvantage during the season due to randomness factor. Then, this is going to be viewed as a normal thing, just a little bit of diversity, that's all

Posted on 2023-01-12 17:09:54   
kamilos
Posts: 2048
Joined: 2011-01-15
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Sir Antonio wrote:

Thank you.

Odpowiedź jest niekompletna więc nadal liczę, że ktoś dołoży swoje trzy grosze z doświadczenia


Zapomniałem wcześniej
Ciężko powiedzieć. Jeśli chodzi o lewą rękę to wydaje się, że jest jakaś różnica, ale minimalna. Ja zacząłem ją zauważać niedawno, kiedy moi zawodnicy zaczęli osiągać oceny meczowe na poziomie 9-9.5*. Wtedy praworęczny tracił chyba pół gwiazdki. Jest to więc bardzo niewielka różnica, znacząca tylko jeśli o rezultacie decydują detale i gramy na najwyższym poziomie. Na poziomie 3-5 ligi pewnie nawet niezauważalny. W mojej opinii warto się tym przejmować, jeśli chcesz być naprawdę najlepszy i zależy Ci na zdobyciu przewagi w jakikolwiek sposób. Rynek oszalał i leworęczni są dużo drożsi, w mojej opinii jest to zazwyczaj nieopłacalne. Czy pół miliona ma dla Ciebie znaczenie, kiedy płacisz po 4-5 mln za zawodnika? Raczej nie. Natomiast na niższym poziomie, wolałbym kupić dwóch solidnych praworęcznych po kilkaset tysięcy, niż wydać milion na jednego leworęcznego. Podsumowując- różnice są minimalne i widoczne dopiero na wyższym poziomie. Nie robiłem porównania w skuteczności rzutowej (poprzez analizę statystyk praworęcznego i leworęcznego na RW w podobnych meczach itp), więc ciężko mi powiedzieć, czy rzeczywiście są jakieś większe różnice. Jak będziesz chciał wygrać pierwsza ligę to możesz się zacząć tym przejmować i wydawać kilkaset tysięcy więcej na leworęcznego. Wcześniej w mojej opinii się nie opłaca.

Co do wzrostu moje zdanie jest nieco mieszane. Ja niestety nie zauważyłem znaczących bonusów z racji wysokiego wzrostu. Miałem bardzo wysoki skład przez ostatnie sezony i jakoś ta gra z wyskoku nie zawsze mi służyła, często ją odpuszczałem. Nie wiem, może niech wypowiedzą się inni, ale ja jestem dosyć sceptycznie nastawiony co do tego aspektu. Jakieś różnice podobno są, tak przynajmniej kiedyś pisali admini, że większy wzrost niewiele, ale jednak pomaga, np. rozgrywającym. Ja natomiast nie mogę tego potwierdzić, bo nie zauważyłem takowych plusów w znaczący sposób. Czekam więc na opinie innych managerów

Posted on 2024-01-13 14:43:05   
Sir Antonio
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Cecha bardzo waleczny jest istotna dla którejś pozycji czy nie ma to większego znaczenia i taki rumcajs pogra tak samo dobrze zarówno na kole jak i na skrzydle?
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